Karyn White pauses for a moment as if she’s posing for a photo. She quickly flips through her scrapbook of memories from 1991, when she released her sophomore album. “A lot of great moments stand out with Ritual of Love,” White says with a smile conjured from reminiscence. She then traces it back to her personal life at the time. “It was my relationship with Terry Lewis — my marriage — falling in love and being in love,” she continues. “Ritual of Love is very special to me.”
White is seated in her home office on an early afternoon in February. Her voluminous curls fill the screen when she first appears on Zoom. Her gold earrings match the glimmer in her eyes as she reflects on then and now. The Los Angeles-born singer rose to prominence with her 1988 self-titled LP, home to the Babyface-produced hits “Superwoman” and “The Way You Love Me.” She recalls being excited and eager “to be that girl willing to work my butt off.”
After her explosive debut, which included three top 10 hits on the Billboard Hot 100, White returned with Ritual of Love. Released in September 1991, the Jam & Lewis-produced album featured her No. 1 hit “Romantic,” which topped the Hot 100 that fall. Before White took an extended hiatus, she delivered her third album, Make Him Do Right, in 1994. While the album didn’t receive the same reception as her previous works, it did land her two top 10s on the Adult R&B Airplay chart, which launched the year prior.
White’s latest single, “You’re Gonna Want Me Back,” could be her next top 10 hit on this very same chart. And she’s celebrating every stride of the way. “I’m having an incredible day,” she says, “it’s been three decades since I’ve been in the top 25 on the chart.” (At the time of this writing, the track has peaked at No. 11.)
“You’re Gonna Want Me Back” feels two-fold. On one end, it’s a chilling reminder to an ex of what they’ve lost, while serving as an appetizer that will have fans craving more. Derek “DOA” Allen’s production is lively as a warm memory. The song interpolates Dionne Warwick’s 1973 classic “You’re Gonna Need Me,” which Usher famously sampled on his Confessions cut, “Throwback.”
“You’re Gonna Want Me Back” marks White’s first official single since her 2012 album, Carpe Diem (Seize the Day). In conversation with Rated R&B, Karyn White reflects on making Ritual of Love 35 years later, her new single and what she has planned next.
I want to start the conversation with some reflection. Later this year, your second album, Ritual of Love, turns 35 (September). When you think back to that era and creating that album, what’s a memory that comes to mind?
A lot of great moments stand out with Ritual of Love; it was my Terry Lewis relationship — my marriage — falling in love and being in love. Ritual of Love is very special to me. Those moments being in Flyte Tyme [Studios] and working with them, were magical. Also getting to work with Michael Powell on one of my favorite songs, “Tears of Joy.” Thirty-five years symbolize change and elevation.
I remember you mentioning in an interview around the time of the album’s release that “Tears of Joy” was one of your favorites. What is it about that song that resonates with you 35 years later?
That song is special because it’s [about being] in love, and I feel like Terry was an amazing human being. I love the production by Michael Powell, who is Anita Baker’s producer. That song had that Anita energy, and I just put my magic on top. It was a beautiful song that should have been a single. But at that time, I had management that was George Michael’s management, and he saw me in the light of a pop diva — being the next Black Madonna versus the grounded, soulful songs we call evergreens. I believe if we would’ve released that song, it would’ve been a smash.
Funny that you mentioned that, because my next question was about a song you wish were released as a single.
Oh, so many. They really messed up on that second [album] because, like I said, we were trying to be the pop diva he was, and we left a lot of meat on the bone. These songs are still amazing today. Not saying those other songs didn’t have their fun, they were uptempos, but the real magic of Karyn White is singing those ballads: “Tears of Joy,” “Do Unto Me” and “How I Want You.” It’s that sensual side of me.
You co-wrote 10 of the album’s 12 tracks. When you were writing, did you have an overall mission?
I came into the business as a background singer at 17. When I was trying to get a record deal, I was on a bunch of records for big artists like the Commodores, Bobby Brown and Johnny Gill. I was also a songwriter. I had the first single “Til You Come Back To Me” on Rochelle Ferrell’s [self-titled album]. I [co-wrote] “Automatic Passion” for Stephanie Mills’ [self-titled album] and some other artists. The beautiful part about working with Jam & Lewis is that, as they did with Janet, they were like, “We want your truth.” I was really excited to do that with them. Plus, I felt like I’d grown so much as a writer working with L.A. [Reid] and Babyface. I was really excited to express myself.
You come from a time when stars were massive and talent was essential to compete in the field. Today, there are conversations about the lack of lasting star power in music. In your view, what makes a star?
You’ve got to have that “it” factor; that’s the essence. When you walk into a room, when the camera comes on, you know how to work the camera. Being from the MTV era, that was a big part of becoming a star. You not only had to be vocally amazing but also entertaining. And not only have a great record, but also be authentic. I always remember Jody Watley. I was always in awe of her fashion and her videos — and Madonna. That was some fierce competition. I think all of that is what makes a star, and the music — what we were singing about.
When it came time to work on your second album, did you have a vision for it going in or did you vibe your way through it?
It was about vibe at Flyte Tyme. With Jam and Lewis, it’s always a discovery. Nothing is ever like, “This is who you are.” It’s a treasure hunt: What do you want to talk about? And it was obvious. I’m like, “I’m in love.” But also Jam and Lewis felt like, “Wow, you should be working with L.A. and Babyface. Why aren’t you?” Something happened with L.A. and Face with my label, and that’s why we weren’t working together. A lot of my fans felt like, “Darn it, we really loved you guys together.” So that was the one thing we were always trying to make sure of: We didn’t want them to feel like they were missing that essence of Karyn White storytelling, which is female empowerment.
Let’s get into your new single, “You’re Gonna Want Me Back,” which is climbing up the charts. It interpolates Dionne Warwick’s “You’re Gonna Need Me.” Talk to us about creating that record.
The songwriting process was very intuitive for me. I focused on telling the truth. This song was about when a relationship has reached its course. It is the grown woman way to say, “OK, I’m out. Clarity, I’m good.” That’s really the evolution from “Superwoman” to this. And nobody can tell a story like Ms. Dionne Warwick. “Say a Little Prayer.” “Do You Know the Way to San Jose.” She just paints stories. You can visually see them. I was inspired by her amazing chorus, and I called Derek [“D.O.A.” Allen], who I trust — I called him my Quincy Jones — and I said, “Hey, I got an idea. I want to use this chorus, but I’m changing it a little. Then we’re going to have totally new music. I’m hearing this retro European, kind of Raphael Saadiq vibe with little Earth, Wind & Fire horns on it and live instrumentation.” So that’s how that came to play.
What does it mean for you to see “You’re Gonna Want Me Back” on the charts after an extended hiatus?
A whole lot. You don’t even understand, me fighting with myself, my team, me being the label, the marketing person, the photographer, the artist, all of that. It’s a lot. It’s exhausting, but I love it. I love the fact that we get to tell stories on our own terms. I love that I’m back on the charts. I didn’t try to be anybody else. I felt like I still have Karyn White. The storytelling is there, the musicality, sort of like what Jill [Scott] did too. I’m obsessed with this Jill record. She outdid herself for the culture, baby. And then some of the young girls I love and think are incredible. Snoh Aalegra. I love her music. She’s got that kind of music that will be around. Solange. I love the “Cranes in the Sky.” I love what Teyana [Taylor] is doing. I’m so proud of her.
Are there plans to release more new music in the near future?
I’m so excited. I have four songs recorded. I think they’re better than the first single. As long as that music is living up to me putting out something great, then I will. Other than that, I ain’t wasting y’all time. We’ll do singles until I get Raphael Saadiq on this project (laughs), which I’m trying to do. But yeah, we’re just developing it and getting back out here with radio because being independent, I am having to spend every dollar.
Featured Photo Credit: Ashley Reid Photography
